If you have them email exchange at an HP board or give us a call to tell us your story. If you go on YouTube and search mount lion Pat you can see people patent their hundred pound kiddie like its regular mascot cat. Sue Morse: First and foremost if you have color or if you could see details of color look at the front of the face around the Pumas muzzle the muzzle itself is pure white. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. They sent it already. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. So one thing I'd point out is we've been talking about situations with no evidence a number of them come in with photographs and yet what they fit what they description of the animal they saw and by the way I got a picture of what I saw. I noticed it had a really big sweeping tail that kind of curled up behind it and all but still at that point because everyone says there's no mountain lions here. Peter Biello: Well I want to ask Patrick about one of these stories a few years ago you had a story about someone who claimed to. You know I think it's there's a lady Holly Ernst out in California who has done a lot of the genotyping of mountain lions in Northern California the ones that are of course most people have heard about taking down hikers bikers etc. What kind of animal is that. Patrick Tate: If I could just say one thing. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. Peter Biello: From New Hampshire Public Radio I'm Peter Biello in for Lark Knoy and this is the exchange. Peter Biello: Hmm. I was a Bobcat we saw it and I have a picture of it. The best documentation we have in New Hampshire suggests there hasnt been a mountain lion killed by a hunter in this state since 1885. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. PublishedNovember 16, 2018 at 6:16 AM EST. He studied Politics and Spanish at Bates College, and before reporting was variously employed as a Spanish teacher, farmer, bicycle mechanic, ski coach, research assistant, a wilderness trip leader and a technical supporter. Thank you. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. Patrick Tate: I don't believe it is. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. I saw that had this giant the bobcat had this giant sweeping which is John Bobcat don't have big sweeping tails. People go through great lengths to create hoaxes like this. I can't tell you what you saw but it sounds like a mountain lion. Fish and Wildlife Service decided all of the cougars, pumas, and mountain lions in the country are actually the same species, and that species hasnt had a breeding population anywhere near the Northeast for at least 70 years. Home; Archivos. Monday, December 5th: Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. John. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. But the state always denies it, and none of us know why they deny it. Yes. State officials have said, over and over in recent years, that the eastern mountain lion has been completely wiped out from the Northeast. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. Think you've seen a mountain lion? Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. So I just throwing that out there it's interesting. I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. It's you know I recognized their report and. Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. It doesn't make much sense because you know mountain lions are as we as we said before. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. The last wild mountain lion in New Hampshire may have been killed in the White Mountains in 1885. Information that weed family automotive dot com sunny for today high temperatures low to mid 80s clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s tomorrow sunny highs in the upper 80s. What gets confusing is when you have a large adult animal and a smaller juvenile animal of a different species you can now step start beginning talking about overlapping body weights and sizes. Patrick Tate: Well I've never seen an Easter cougar so I can't say when I've handled these 10 cougars and whatnot. I wasn't employed as biologists at the time of a situation that's been reported but so I started digging into this report and spoke with another wildlife biologist with the agency and said Do you know anything about this. Is this kind of a typical story. They are the same thing. So so. This is a list of known or suspected fatal cougar attacks that occurred in North America by decade in chronological order. Sam Evans-Brown: And when we talk about subspecies this actually leads to to an interesting tangent which is that the field of biology recently has been sort of revolutionized by the use of DNA to determine what subspecies are. We we hear that there is allegedly a government conspiracy to deny the existence of mountain lions here in New Hampshire so I guess a local government conspiracy. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. It's not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. He writes As a farmer I come across many outdoorsman looking to hunt our property had a conversation with one who believed very strongly that we had mountain lions in New Hampshire. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. Its impossible to say, but I think the odds are pretty good that some of these sightings are legit. DNA from scat or from fur, a clear track that is confirmed by an expert, or a photo that clearly shows a mountain lion. When the federal Endangered Species Act came along, the Eastern Cougar (Puma concolor cougar), the subspecies of Mountain Lon ti hat orgi inally occurred If you missed part of today's program listen to the exchange. I just want to tell you a story that I read. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. Caller: Hi. Since then, there have been a handful of confirmed mountain lion sightings in the Northeast, although most have been thought to be escaped captive animals. They were able to do all that by genetics. Theyve always said when we have verifiable evidence to say a mountain lion has been, is, or was in the state that wed acknowledge that and give that information out, says Pat Tate, the furbearer biologist with New Hampshire Fish and Game, who insists theres no conspiracy. So maybe a good pet for you but not for your neighbor if you just stop by unannounced. Artculos cientficos; Artculos de divulgacin; Menu m from a weed family Automotive on store Street in Concord is serving the Concord area families automotive needs since 1995. Are there other powers that be worried that scary mountain lions will scare off people from camping in New Hampshire. First off if the standard for an agency to go forward with the public and put out a press release that them outlines here their believers are going to say I told you they'd been here the whole time. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. As I tried to get a picture of it so there was it was definitely we looked up all the pictures and it was definitely not a bobcat or anything else being it looked just like a mountain lion. They reported seeing the big tail and everything everything. So for those reasons I don't believe the standards are too high the amount of game cameras out on the landscape to record images department alone through contracts had over 150 throughout the state biologists go through various deer yards throughout the year. I mean I that said I've lived out west for nine years. Is that typically what was happening there. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. Why are there so many false positives? There was a lot of DNA evidence. Let's talk to Mike in Webster. OK. But are there mountain lions living in New Hampshire? Patrick Tate: So Cougar Mountain Lion katama. As far as I could tell there was a positive DNA sequence coming from the scat sample Patrick. So what a neat experience. Credit: Elizabeth Nichols via Storyful . Have a photo. So I reached down to grab the camera and looked back and like a ghost it's gone. They just end up in these places. But if you were to get Western dispersing mountain lions just would just sort of expanding into New Hampshire. Join as a sustainer and support independent local news for your community. Sam Evans-Brown: Well this might be a good moment to talk about hoaxes. Sam Evans-Brown has been working for New Hampshire Public Radio since 2010, when he began as a freelancer. We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. And now that everyone and their mother has a remote camera in their back yard its just so, so unlikely that there are resident, breeding mountain lions in New England that are living invisibly among us, he says, Its become Big Foot.. Patrick Tate: No downward pressure at all I think actually Sean turned up and we found the evidence there a number of people would finally say finally we can put this debate to bed. Peter Biello: Well Mike thanks very much for sharing your story. I believe I saw one that's fine and I'm not looking for an immediate story. So. Listeners give us a call if you'd like. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. OK. That location they just described we had two or three Bobcats radio collared on just off the runway in Laconia airport. Infinite Scroll Enabled. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. Each person had their own copy and now it was identify the trees the species of tree matched. Part II. And a lot of people around the county airport have seen a lot of pilots coming in said they saw huge. You know you have to have a license and it's hard to get that license a license to own a mountain lion. Peter Biello: Yeah well what do you think Pat is. Mike Guyton pressure was almost Greyhound like very muscular large back legs on it and the coloration on it was almost an orange brownish orange color and so I stop and I look at this thing in the field and as the animal looks at me the face was very chiseled definitely not a bobcat. And you know it's rather interesting because certainly there are those you as a case of mistaken identity or they wanted to see something that perhaps they actually didn't. Patrick Tate: So it's interesting it's brought up. Theres tracks everywhere. Peter Biello: Today on the program Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist and far better project leader Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in which is about the natural world and how we use it. I just stood there just a second and I came to a complete stop and then I ran away. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. You could trace that was this same cat from point to point to point. Which goes back to the Connecticut Connecticut cat and what not. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. Mountain lions leave a lot of sign. This is the exchange. All of that remains unanswered but it is an extremely interesting question. And those and that's how you can go from a story that Pat says I have nothing to say about that to a story that you know could be the first verified sighting in over 100 years. Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. Peter Biello: This is NHK PR Good morning and HP are summer car raffle is back and now's the time to get your early bird tickets. The engineers Dan Colgan our senior producer is Allan Grimm. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. And it came out we could see it had and we could see its long swooping tail. What Really Caused Washington's Cougar Attack. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Sean McDonald. They create these big latrines that are very obvious. The last known mountain lion killed in New Hampshire is displayed at the Woodman Museum in Dover. Peter Biello: Well yeah. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. Long before NASA was asked to put a man on the moon one engineer had already figured out how to get there. Thank you. By Eric Orff. Author of The last woman in the forest on Saturday July 13th at 7 p.m. at Warner town hall Warner historical dawg. We'll hear from her periodically through the show. Now Bobcat is a completely different species. So that's the specimen that you find going long distances. It's got a a smudge of black and bobcats and links just don't have that we don't have any other cards. Peter Biello: Oh okay. It was killed in Lee New Hampshire in 1853. Some of the reports that I looked into that were actually on file at the local fish and game office were even from people who did not live locally. You've got you've got biologists right who are trying to make their make their way in the world make a career if you are the biologists who confirmed a sighting of mountain lions in the state that would be very good for you like you would be all over the news. Something along those lines. And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. But Absence of Evidence Is Not Evidence of Absence, Right? If youve got photo trap evidence of a Mountain Lion, send it in, and we'll send it along to the appropriate state or federal agency! In recent years, number of reported cougar sightings has never dropped below double digits, according to data from New Hampshire's Fish & Game Department from 2010 to present day. Deer manages to free itself from the claws of a mountain lion in Alpine, California. I mean they're a survivor. Sam Evans-Brown: But I mean the video I had been sent was you know a recording of a animal growling but it was in slow motion and when I asked the person why is this in slow motion the denied that it was so there's a lot of weird stuff that happens in regards to people claiming they've seen they've seen these things. However if if and when it does happen it takes up a lot of resources looking at that situation and identifying what's going on because when you start out you don't know it's a hoax. Novartis sold $1.1 billion worth of Gilenya in the U.S. last year, a 19% drop from 2021 that was caused in part by generic competition, according to . Rick van de Poll: Absolutely. Yes and you want to share what you learned. Russ, from Sandwich (and Bedford) asks: In Sandwich New Hampshire, everybody has a story about seeing a mountain lion. Here it is. Fish and Game looked into the labs to have them confirm the information in the reports which the labs did not. Let's go now to to Kyle in Keene I believe Kyle is this Kyle Jarvis from the Keene Sentinel a former reporter and former reporter. And I can recall its information but I can't confirm or verify anything. Does not test random Scouts. Caller: Yeah I hadn't experienced blastoff fall so this was around September and I was driving from Webster into Concord on Horse Hill Road and anybody in the area would know I was right near the Red Barn and all of a sudden this animal jumps out of the woods and it bounded across the road in about two two giant leaps and stopped in the field just on the other side. Peter Biello: Let's go to Mike in Epping. But having read a bit of information about his cougar there are a darker subspecies. But along the lines of the conspiracy theories as you mentioned earlier there there was a bit of a sense on behalf of what I'll call the promo online community who felt that fishing gain maybe not even so much in a spoken policy but maybe sort of an unspoken policy did not want to find themselves in a situation where they had to spend money to create a management plan and so forth. The exchange is a production of New Hampshire Public Radio. It's listed as population of least concern. The big cat has been extinct here since the mid-1800s. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. Part II. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. Let us know your story and share your photos. So one thing that I find fascinating about this Connecticut cat was six months between the New York situation where they found evidence of it too when it was hit by a motor vehicle. Well let's talk a little bit about that. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. I've had a number of people call up and say I found a scout in the woods and I want it DNA identified. I looked at the picture and asked me what do you see in the picture and I wrote back. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. I'm Peter B yellow. Well within there. For starters, part of the confusion might come from the fact that the eastern cougar was taken off the endangered species list earlier this year. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. Listeners we'd love to hear some of your thoughts on this. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. The last catamount in Vermont is finally, officially, certainly dead. Really appreciate you guys being here as well. Caller: It had to be a mountain lion convinced I was about 30. Pelosi story here we go. For me as a person who's handled many bobcats and looked at many pictures Bobcat the White chin Bobcat right off is what comes out to me and then the black the the roughs on our Bobcats we'll have sometimes have black fringes on them. And sometimes I've seen pictures of those where it's the question is What is that is that a bobcat. Mountain Lions are a mythical creature in New Hampshire with strong feelings on both sides of the question: are there Mountain Lions in New Hampshire? It was not a bobcat. Caller: Well I think Patrick I recognized your name. For evidence of a free-roaming, wild and native mountain lion, we must look back to 1874. The Idaho Department of Fish and Game last week killed a mountain lion that entered a Hailey family's chicken coop, marking the third time the agency has killed a mountain lion in the Wood River . So if you were to ask me has a mountain lion ever passed through New Hampshire and been spotted by somebody who wasnt able to get hard evidence? Id personally be willing to say "probably, yes.". Your support makes this news available to everyone. Patrick Tate: Yes. Course like Sue said you have to see it and it's not always that visible. And I just said I saw I saw they from behind the shoulder all the way past the long tail. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. It all used to be based on measurable physical traits color, skull size, paw size, etc but now its based on whether an animal can be shown to be genetically distinct from others. Right. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. And there are thousands of mountain lions killed every year legally through hunting, and there have been untold tens of thousands of mountain lions killed by hunters over the last hundred. I tracked cats and all the western states. John you're on the air. If youd like to submit a question (or send a mountain line photo) you can record it as a voice memo on your smart phone and send it tooustidein@nhpr.org, OR call our hotline, 1-844-GO-OTTER (1-844-466-8837) and leave a message. A monthly donation of $5 makes a real difference. However, as far as I can tell theres no Deep State Conspiracy to cover up a breeding population of cougars in the Granite State. There's no attraction. So do they. The one confirmed case, sometimes referred to as the " Connecticut Mountain Lion " happened in June 2011 when an SUV struck and killed a cougar in Milford. Peter Biello: Sam I wanted to ask you a little bit about that first and then turn to Patrick Tate efficient game. And the second question is this a behavior mountain lions exhibit. As wildlife biologists, wed be fascinated to say 'look look what was found in our state.'. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. Today she talked with us a little bit before the show about why the mountain line is so compelling and why we want it to be part of our world. So I will just say this is a big reason why there have not been confirmed sightings I think is that the evidence required first. Caller: Absolutely. Patrick Tate: So the individuals can say that but for an agency that's based on science and what not to to go off with no evidence and then get into that giant debate and all these other issues and put credibility at risk I don't think that would be a great path to take. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. Just one quick point I think I think when we we talk about these conspiracy theories the real story is that fish and game is an agency that that is short on budget and staff. So I don't understand really how how this this idea came to be but it is the main reason why folks believe that fishing game is is covering up the fact that there are mountain lions in the state again with no evidence. In fact, Pat Tate concedes that hes been told of sightings from folks that he considers to be very credible, very woods savvypeople who know what a bobcat looks likebut those folks have never snapped a good photo or found a good track. "Of those three to five reports, one. Do they travel. Tim Yeah. For instance, Floridas wildlife officials have a similar ghost cat: the black panther. We send out DNA samples to the U.S. Forest Service Rocky Mountain Research Station. We're not in the woods. Rick van de Poll: Well a report that you know as John Harrigan up north has in co-ops County for about 15 years I kept track of reports and people would call me and tell me where they saw the mountain lion they thought they saw it and it varied right from you know downtown villages all the way to remote highlands of the North Country and and everywhere in between. The odds are pretty good that some of your thoughts on this information about his cougar are... Some of your thoughts on this down to grab the camera and looked back and like mountain! Looked at the picture and asked me what do you think Pat is have license! A monthly donation of $ 5 makes a real difference Bobcat had this giant the Bobcat had this the... Mountain Research Station kiddie like its regular mascot cat to tail would be kind of a mountain lion are... 'S not a skinny rope like tail like a housecat Absence, right away okay up and I... 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